I choked a bit on my margarita and shook my head. Tale as old as time, I thought as I found myself having the same conversation for the second time in less than a week. Men and women can’t be friends.
As a woman with plenty of guy friends, I repeatedly have to call bullshit on this one. Especially when I’m hearing the yarn from one of those guy friends. So despite the fact that we were chatting over drinks, being friendly, Mike J carried on – quite adamantly – about why he doesn’t have girl friends. You know, friends who are girls. He doesn’t have anything to talk about with most girls, he maintained, and if he did – if he and a girl just happened to get along – well,
“You couldn’t help but ruin it by sleeping with her?”
“Exactly,” he said. “If you’re cool, I’m going to try to take your shirt off. That’s just how it is.”
I rolled my eyes. Obviously, Mike J and I are friends because he has such a lovely way with words. That, and I know how to keep my shirt on.
LOL Fish I just love that I agree with you most of the time if not all the time!
I smiled when I read this because I had this same conversation last night with my roommates (both of which are males) how its almost impossible for girls and guys to be friends with out something happening. I just laughed because they clearly haven’t noticed me a girl who is their friend and ahem lived with them for the last year and nothing has “happened” or ever will.
That is something I am proud of I live w/ 2 succesfull attractive single guys and nothing has happpened…………….. hmm or should I be proud? lol aww fish I love how you make me question…..
I am a firm believer that women & men can be friends…I actually have more male friends than female…I find that I relate to men better…I’ve also found that most/some women are catty & instead of being adults…resort to being their 16 year old self again…which I can not relate to.
I also know how to keep my shirt on…
I have quite a few women friends. Most of my close friends are women in fact. And while I’m not actively trying to get their shirts off at every opportunity (at least not for the past few years), they’re all truly amazing women in their respective ways. Smart, attractive, fun, funny, and so on.
When the chance to date an amazing women comes along, I’d have to be pretty stupid not to take it. And if that chance happens to be one of the aforementioned friends, yes it ups the risks, but it also ups the potential rewards.
A drunken makeout session can be laughed off with a good friend the next day, while potential relationship conversion thoughts should be somewhat soberly considered.
2 additional notes:
- Hanging out with women friends is great practice for dates with non friends.
- Great women socialize with other great women. Having women friends is the best “in” to one of their friends you can find.
-Peter
now i’ve got celine and peabo in my head. thanks. thanks a lot.
I think men and women can definitely be friends without the sex stuff getting in the way. But oh how the rapport improves when there’s just a little bit of flirtatious tension…
I agree with peter’s additional note. Hanging out with friends of the opposite sex does provide practice for and insight into dating the opposite sex. There’s so much you learn in a friendship that you wouldn’t in a relationship because you’re too mixed up with wondering if he’ll still like you when he sees your morning face (and other such trivialities)
I second your motion. I would like to add that I am friends with my ex of a bajillion years and we haven’t tried to get the other nekkid for years. In fact, ew. I think it takes an intelligent woman who knows exactly what she wants to make it work though. I give no credit to the men who “control” themselves
PS Where’s the do-over follow up story please? It’s Thursday!
I was friends with my sweet heart for 4.5 years before a family tragedy brought us closer. It has been 17 years together. We were both poor struggling under graduates. IMHO perhaps it is better to be friends first before becoming lovers.
Speaking of men and women and being friends/lovers/etc., whatever happened to Tawdry Tuesdays (or whatever the title was)?
I thought this one guy I met in college was my go-to for the argument: “Of course men and women can by friends! Why, just take me and So-and-so for example.” But then it turned out he was harboring an enormous crush on me. And well, now we’re engaged. So now I’m still left wondering. The only other good male friend I have is a guy who once told me he loved me, under the pretense that he thought I felt the same way … So I’m still not entirely convinced.
My best friend is a woman i used to live with for 4 1/2 years … sometimes i think she wonders why LOL but we closer now than we ever were as a couple… i think a couple of years after we split up we tried to sleep together again as a one off but we ended up laughing so much we ended up ordering take-out and watching a movie. she’s an absolute sweetheart and a godsend in my life for sure… a happy ending for resons no one can quite figure out!
If I’m honest, I have to admit that there’s always been some element of pseudo-dating in my friendships with guys, like we were filling in the blanks for each other until someone we wanted to be romantic with came along.
Agreed. I have maybe 5 or 6 really great male friends. Nothing at all sexual! It’s annoying when people say its impossible to be just friends. It is possible!
My best friend is a guy I’ve known for 20 years. Despite the rumors that swirled in high school, nothing ever happened between us; though we always joke about our inevitable marriage, the idea of actually even attempting to take our relationship to a different level nauseates us both (much to our parents’ chagrin).
My best friends are men, generally. There’s so much less drama involved with guy friendships than girl. However, I often find myself playing the role of the “best friend” and not getting a date. There’s a fine line to walk sometimes…
I think gay men are the perfectly solution to this dilemma.
i can honestly say i’ve never had any real guy friends that haven’t tried to sleep with me. i have more guy friends than i do girl friends, but they’ve all tried to get in my pants at some point or another, and some have succeeded in their attempts at drunken sexual relations.
maybe there’s something wrong with me….
the only platonic guy friends i’ve ever had were my girlfriends boyfriends. there is no sexual tension there at all, and you don’t have to worry about them harboring any hidden feelings.
I hate to do it, but I have to disagree. I used to think this could happen, but was wrong enough times to change my mind. I think it can SEEM like you’re friends, but it’s only a matter of time (or timing) before the real reason for maintaining the acquaintance bubbles to the surface.
I think it’s possible for guys and girls to be friendLY – at work and such. But meet for drinks just to catch up and blab, turn to in times of happiness or trouble (i.e. true friend stuff) it just doesn’t happen. In high school/early college, I thought I had mostly guy friends for all the usual reasons people state, but now I realize I was just intimidated by other women and I outgrew it.
I have two very good guy friends. Sure, in the back of my mind, the thought has crossed my mind, “what if…” but nothing even bordering on sexual has happened. Both these guys, I’ve been close friends with for 4-5 years. My third guy friend was my old neighbor several years ago… he flirted with the idea of being more than friends, but that was long before he got married…We’re still friends! And the topper, I’m actually just friends with both of my X’s! Talked to the guy I was with when I was 18-24 last week. And I talked to the guy I was with from 26-28 today!
Interestingly, my significant other has NO female friends. He says guys can’t just be friends with women, and he has no interest in having female friends (well, good thing since that’s his take on it). He claims he’s okay with my male friendships. Two months into the relationship, I guess I have yet to see if he really is cool with it.
Hi Fish,
Have read your blog for years, and this entry reminded me of the theory I heard quite a long time ago from one of my male friends: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html. I find this so true! Greetings from Finland, and keep on writing:)!
Well.. have to say I diasgree but maybe for my own failings. As a 32 year old single woman who agreed to go to Amsterdam this weekend with her 26 yr old male freind (and yes, I have been there but yes… I was naive enough to beleive we had got over that!) I have had the worst weekend ever! It was awful beyond awful which resulted in him sleeping with a hooker despite the fact he didnt have money to go for dinner and didnt want to offend his girlfriend but apparently causal sex is fine. I guess to a guy then this is all normal. I however, find it a little distateful X
Why does When Harry Met Sally spring to mind?
Of course, our dear Sally didn’t succeed in keeping her shirt on. A girl can only oh-oh-oooh in a deli so many times and remain fully clothed.
I guess the lesson here is to simply refrain from sobbing to Mike J in the middle of the night so you don’t end up naked. Or married. Or singing Surry With The Fringe On Top.
It’s cause, clearly, you’re too much hot piece of woman for any man to resist.
I’ve slept with some of my best male friends. Does that mean we can’t be friends or that we aren’t real friends because we hooked up once? I don’t think so. That also doesn’t mean that they don’t still hit on me when I’m drunk and then apologize the next day. ha
I’ve definitely bene having this conversation A LOT recently and it’s disappointing, but I htink a never ending issue that men will think they cannot have women friends, it sucks because, I’m ALWAYS the “woman friend” so am I friendless? who knows. lol.
Gaah, Fish, I just posted on this subject today. Desperately want to believe that this is not the case, as current love interest has a girl best friend who will NOT LET GO!
This story is so much better now that I know which mike you are talking about!