“Never use sex as a weapon.”
I was twenty years old then, sitting at the dining room table getting unsolicited relationship advice from a long-time family friend. Kenny had known me since I was knee high to bullfrog; his wife, Terri had been my mother’s best friend through everything – from braces and training bras to miscarriages and snotty teenagers. Their daughter, Summer, was soon to be wed and so for Kenny, it was the perfect time to pass on a few choice words of wisdom to the virgin bride and her mortified friend.
“Kenny, you’re embarrassing her.”
His wife had tried to intervene, but Kenny was on a roll. And yes, I was embarrassed. At the time, I was a few months short of graduating from Brigham Young University and my experience with men had been regulated pretty intensely by both God and the Honor Code. Curfews, dress codes and chastity lines.
I wasn’t using sex as anything, much less a weapon.
And as for the sexual climate of the household I grew up in, well, let’s just say this: there are only five documented cases of my parents having had sex. They are Jason, Heather, Nora, Audrey and Joyce. There has never been any evidence to support further nookie.
There certainly was never talk of sexual appetite or wet spots(!), for heaven’s sake.
Kenny went on to extol the virtues of a loving, understanding wife who did not banish her husband to the couch for every little infraction, and who would never ever withhold sex as means of punishment. Even in my inexperience I had to agree. Withhold sex? Isn’t that punishment for everyone involved?
That’s what I would call a no-win situation.
As I got older and developed my own relationship MO, that did not change. I never became a nagger and I never banned nookie when I was upset. I think if anything, unrest made me crave it more. But that is neither here nor there.
A couple days ago, Wes suggested that it would be great for us to be flatmates. We’d have such a happy, TV-free home. While I couldn’t think of a single thing the two of us would ever argue about, I had to decline.
“No. I refuse to have another roommate. The next time I live under the same roof as someone, I will be able to use sex as leverage.”
Leverage being totally different from punishment. I mean it more as a bargaining chip or a rewards system.
I like sex. You like sex. I also like when I don’t have to take out the garbage. In fact, it gets me really hot. Ooh, what you do with a twist tie…
You see where this is going.
Kenny’s lesson got across and it stuck. I will never use sex as a weapon. But as means to barter my way into domestic bliss? Hell yes. The only drawback may come when he’s late to work on a regular basis after playing sanitation engineer, but overall, I think that is what I would call a win-win situation.
Tit for tit, if you will.
I’m with you.
Oooh baby. It’s so sexy when you scoop the kitty litter.
i’m so much loving this new fish who comments in the comments more because she doesn’t have our e-mail addresses and who’s telling us neato stories about sex that all us wild women already think about anyway but never read from fun-loving fish. ::smoooch::
(how come your comments’ numbers aren’t increasing on the main page? still says you have zero comments on this post. just wondering. i miss the old thisfish.com. sigh. but i support you, so i support – ugh! – your ivillage endeavor!)
The main page refreshes every hour. Yet another thing that I have no control over. Like my links. Or gravity.
We’ll get through this.
when exactly does the contract end??
(yer awesome, keep writing, they’re paying, so WHO CARES!)
Hah! Very witty.
Never use the remote control as a weapon either. But I guess that doesn’t apply in your TV-less household.
Thank God you didn’t say “tat.”
LOL! Someone shoulda given me that talk, I’d still be in a relationship if I hadn’t withheld sex one night. Hindsight is 20/20, and I’m prepared for next time. Next time it’ll be “Honey, let’s finish this argument later, you turn me on when I piss you off.”
This conversation makes me feel a little sad and lonely.
I find that sex as a leverage works wonders. The more sex they get, the happier they are, the happier they are, the more they want to do stuff for you, the more they want to do stuff for you, the less time you spend washing clothes/dishes, cleaning house, taking out trash and litter.
I will be right over with my hefty bags.
Are you Mormon? I mean Bringham Young, right? I’m just surprised to see that. Although, I suppose there is often grand misconceptions regarding that religion.
I was raised Mormon, but the baby jesus and I parted ways years ago.
There aren’t many win-win situations. When you find one, you have to relish in it!
Hey, what ever happened to the letters to baby jesus site?
So using sex to get your man to do “chores” isn’t using sex as a weapon?
I can tell you with some degree of certainty that tactics such as this will not only lead to a dysfunctional relationship, they will also lead to resentment and anger from your spouse (that is, if you ever end up with one). Wouldn’t it be smarter to approach the things NEITHER of you like to do with (gasp!) an even hand? The best relationships are those in which both partners are equally invested. I mean, I’ve been in a relationship for 10 years (living together for four) that, while not without its problems, is extremely healthy, and this concept has a lot to do with it.
You’d think that women wouldn’t want to further this ideal that the only reason men keep them around is for sex… but then you read things like this and it makes you wonder. Isn’t using sex to get people to do things for you a form of prostitution?
Sad… just sad.
I have to agree with Kenny. It was good advice, and here’s my take on it. Some ladies use sex to get a man they soon find they wish they had never met.
I applaud you for not forgetting his words of advice (whatever your own reasons for heeding it).
And it’s only prostitution if it’s a stranger or pseudo-stranger and you detach yourself from the situation.
So you need Tyler Durden, rubber gloves and all.
…and if you don’t want him, my dear, I’d be glad to take Tyler Durden off your hands. There really WAS something amazing to those rubber gloves, wasn’t there? (laugh) Mrowwwrr.
Now who’s the saucy bitch, eh Biscuit?
The reverse is also true: don’t use weapons for sex, ‘nough said.
Saucey Bitch indeed! I thought that your site was an advice free zone. Has that all changed now that it’s with iVillage? I agree with the give and take thing on happy relationships, but who is anyone to point fingers about prostitution? I think someone is a little tightly wound; perhaps not using sex in any manner if you know what I’m sayin?
It appears we’re at an impasse, because I refuse to do any more work around this place until I get laid. HA!
The Durden rubber gloves did nothing for me … but the dressing gown emblazoned with applique cups of coffee, now that’s an entirely different story
That wasn’t a dressing gown. That was a chenille robe.
Jesus, I’m a straight guy and even I knew that.
Oh yeah. And he wasn’t wearing plain old slippers – they were boudoir pumps.
I speak severely to my boy
and beat him when he sneezes
for he can thoroughly enjoy
the pepper when he pleases.
I am more like Nike: Just do it
Positive reinforcement is good. It’s not using sex as a weapon. Negative reinforcement just turns us men into neurotic messes who don’t do anything because we don’t want to incur The Wrath.
I’ve found a kindred spirit! Omigod. Have been reading Greek Tragedy, and heard the story of the ‘blog boyfriend’ and new you were the girl.. so I pop over from time to time.. Was not aware you went to BYU. I was born and raised in Provo, the Mormon capital of the universe. Only escaped to New York recently. I fancy myself a recovering Mormon, but it will all probably mess with my head until I die. Most of my girlfriends still sigh and shake their head over my current debaucherous state. I apparently didn’t hold tight enough to the iron rod. But they’re praying for me.
Well, is this a blog about sex advice? relationship advice? what!?? I reallly want to know because I think I really need some help from some unbias people. Thank you…..
Nope. Sorry. Check other iVillage messageboards for the kind of thing.
I really need to learn the art of sex for leverage. Seriously. I could use some help around the house
hehe
“weapon” makes it sound so hostile. think of it as using sex as a tool. like a phillips head screwdriver.
heh heh. you said ‘head’. heh.
Head, heehee. I think I’m rubbing off on you fish.
I said rubbing.
wow. i’m done here. best of luck.
i miss the old thisfish!!!
Don’t worry. The links will be back soon (I’ve been promised.)
the links are there (on the “about me” page). i’m talking about the recent ‘technical difficulties!!!’ i’m eager to read the end of the newest post! ::hugs.::
You’re telling me! I’m am one unhappy camper.
Did it ever occur to you — or Kenny — that a woman might not want to have sex when she’s upset? That her intentions are not to punish her partner but far more complicated and deep? Maybe she’s pissed or sad or frustrated or hurt. Maybe she’s going through something deep and personal. Yet, as this is going on, the perspective is that the guy is being punished? That might not be the case. And to think so belittles the relationship and simply points to how self-centered the “punished” is.
When my man and I get into it I don’t even want to see him, much have him inside of me. No!
So Fish, to put it straight, heeding advice from “Kenny” probably ain’t the wisest thing. Or getting advice from anyone who feels punished when they don’t get their way.
i never thought of it that way, but when Alex and I get into it, I don’t want her inside of me, either. pretty much even when we’re not into it, i don’t want her inside of me. usually. ‘cept that one time. i was being punished. for being good, ironically. so i guess what i’m saying for me is that sex as a weapon is probably a good thing, at least when you’re naughty, strung out on lemon drops and wandering around half naked with that kind of crazed look in your eye.
Yes to ad and Disappointed.
Even though I’m a guy, I would think the main reason for not having sex while pissed at my partner would be “I don’t like you much right at the minute”. Nothing to do with punishment at all. More to do with genuine lack of interest.
Also, giving me the glad eye when asking me to take out the garbage would ensure it remained untouched. Simply ask me to do it, perhaps even with an honest “I just can’t be bothered”, and I probably will because I love you. And once I come in, I’ll probably wash my hands give you a massage to try to cheer you up. Because I love you.
Try to manipulate me with sex, and the chances are, we’re one repetition away from being single real soon.
Imagine your man were to promise you some hot lovin’, if only you’ll bring him cold beers during the game. Well, exactly.
Yes, perhaps, but I will tell you: the sexiest thing in the world is for a guy to clean my bathroom. Not while he’s actually cleaning it, mind you, but that he would do it for me because I hate it. That says “I love you” so much more than flowers (although I will definitely take flowers….)
And guys, if a woman stocks the fridge with beer before a big game without being asked? You know you love it!!
Punishment, leverage…whatever. You’re using sex to gain something when it shouldn’t even be on the table to begin with. It’s not different. Just because you use a different word to descibe what you’re doing doesn’t make it any less passive aggressive.
Women need to stop thinking that men are just stupid animals. This whole “they just think with their dick therefore they’re all stupid” mentality is why so many women are alone. Yes, men like sex. But they also like to be respected and valued as much as women do.
Using sex as a way to get a guy to do, say or feel anything is considered using it a a weapon. A bargaining weapon, a weapon of manipulation, etc.
Stop with the Cosmo Girl rules and just suck it up and ask for what you want without dangling something in their face.
Oh pish. I think you’re taking this all a little too seriously.
LOL, poor Fish! Lighten up, people. Just because a girl shows some brains…sheesh…it’s called the barter system. You do for me and I’ll do for you. What’s wrong with that?
tit for tit, i always say.
i never did mind about the little things.
Fish- I’m willing to barter for sex. Whacha got to offer?
-Gregg
>Stop with the Cosmo Girl rules and just suck it up and ask for what you want without dangling something in their face.
Gotta love those ghostly appendages
“he would do it for me because I hate it.”
Exactly. Not because you promised him sex. But because he loves you.
“if a woman stocks the fridge with beer before a big game without being asked? You know you love it!!
”
Probably would. Operating phrase being “without being asked”. Just like guys love doing things for her without being asked. If she stocked it only because he offered her sex in return, that’s another (unpleasant) scenario completely.
“You do for me and I’ll do for you. What’s wrong with that?”
Nothing at all. You give him sex and he gives you sex. Because BOTH partners love it. It’s not a reward for one or the other partner.
“Oh pish. I think you’re taking this all a little too seriously.”
Perhaps. Or perhaps you’ve stumbled on a topic that people feel strongly about?
No, I understand that. But I think maybe *I* am being taken too seriously.
Most things here are written tongue-in-cheek. To condemn me to a life of bad relationships because I say something silly about sex and taking out the garbage is a little bit over the top.
Dear, dear Fish.
I’m terribly sorry I didn’t explain myself better.
In my mind at least, my comments were about a hypothetical situation where a hypothetical person might use sex as a bargaining tool.
At no point was I (knowingly) commenting on you personally; I was talking about the subject. To make the comments I made in a personal way would be rude and offensive and I do try to be neither as often as I can.
You’ll have noticed that several other people left comments on the subject, and I was interacting with them at least as much as commenting on your original posting (note: the subject of your posting, not you personally).
You’ll also have noticed that several people, unlike me, seem to have no problem with using sex as a reward, and they didn’t sound single.
Fish, Heather, – Yes, **I** object to it, and would explain such to a partner who tried it. But communication solves such issues, and you and I are not partners anyway!
I had 2 wisdom teeth out recently. Not fun, but OK. Luck.
“I think maybe *I* am being taken too seriously.”
Maybe.
Speaking for myself, my reaction to your often entertaining blog is a combination of:
- nodding in “Bridget Jones quite obviously IS me”-style agreement
- shaking my head in “didn’t see THAT one coming!”-style bewilderment
i.e. like my reaction to most people. And I don’t take most people seriously.
You’re more linguistically interesting than many people, but still a person, not necessarily an authority on any given subject.
Like me.
Maybe *I* am being taken too seriously?