When it comes to casual dating, I am pretty low maintenance.
I don’t own a copy of The Rules. I don’t make ridiculous, impossible checklists for things like height, education or profession. And I don’t have unreasonable expectations for perfection or mind-reading capabilities.
This is real life, not a Cameron Crowe flick.
I do, however, make a few basic assumptions when I decide to go out with a guy. I assume that by his late twenties, a man should know three things: how to dress, how to kiss, and how treat me like a girl.
Notice I didn’t say “treat me like lady.” Because the obvious is that a man should always be respectful of his date. But what may be less obvious is that he should also be aware of the distinct differences between his date… and one of his buddies.
Allow me to illustrate.
Example 1: The A-Game
Sometime late last summer, I went on a couple of dates with an attractive, well-spoken, and charming entrepreneur we’ll call Drew. Drew tended to ask me out for Thursday evenings, and yet, still be a little miffed when I wanted to be home by midnight. Not to be my mother, but it’s a school night! After a full day in the office, a full evening on the town can be a lot of effort.
For what would have been our third date, and as an invitation to meet his friends, Drew left me a voicemail one afternoon.
“… Thursday night, if you can bring your A-game. Peace out.”
Peace out? Were we on the same paintball team? It wasn’t even the goofy signoff that got me. I remember being most taken aback by the bit about bringing my A-game. I have never been accused of being a bad time or bringing down the group fun quotient. Was insulting me really meant to woo me? Maybe. At the very least it was thoughtless and ultimately, a deal breaker.
Example 2: U just don’t get it
More recently, I started seeing Mark, a wise-cracking, Peter Pan type. After exactly two dates, I received the following text message, late one Friday night (incidentally, the same Friday night we didn’t make plans because he was busy):
Can I reserve u for a make-out session tonite?
Reserve me? What am I, a library book? I replied, no, and with a click!, closed my phone and the window on that potential relationship. Had we been dating for a few months, a message like that might have been not only acceptable, but probably even funny and cute. But in the early stages of dating, it’s cringe-worthy. It’s icky and it’s lazy. I honestly appreciate when men at least go to the pretense of making a date if they’re after some nookie. And frankly, if he can’t be bothered to make a proper drunk dial (or fucking spell out the word y-o-u), he’s likely to be lazy about a whole bunch of other stuff.
If you catch my drift.
Perhaps I’m being fussy. But I’m a sucker for some finesse and a little bit of sweet talk. I mean, is it really so much to ask to be treated like a girl? To be handled with just a little more care than say, the guys in his Fantasy Football league?
God, I hope not.
And to the guy who says, “I didn’t clean up my apartment because I didn’t want to put up a front and make you think I was cleaner than I am.” I say, put up a front! Be cleaner, be nicer! Allow me at least a few good months of ignorant bliss.
Because by then, you’ll probably be farting in bed and a little mess will be the least of my grumbles.
c’mon, almost famous was a great flick.
right on!
god, is this what i have to look forward to? the a-game? sigh.
I’m a stickler for correct spelling and grammar in emails and text and thank God my last boyfriend and my current love have both passed this test. A girl’s gotta have her standards! Trust me, yours are nothing but reasonable, you’ll be glad you stuck with them.
Um…I always bring my A-game, have a fairly clean apartment and can spell ‘you’ in 3 different ways – all of them correct. Do I get your number now?
well said and right on!! this should be required reading for all guys everywhere!
I share a similar aversion to people who can not simnply spell out the word y-o-u. It’s only two more letters and it’s not like you get charged by the vowels.
Phrases such as “CU 2nite”, “R U close?”, and “Talk 2 U l8tr” are cringeworthy texts that serve to remind me not to take education or maturity off my favored attributes list.
Sing it sister.
You aren’t being a fussy fish. I dated Dr. Evil, a Harvard Med grad, who one would assume had some idea to differentiate the male and female anatomy. Guess again. He called me…gasp…DUDE! The minute he said that, I was like, dude I am outta here!
You, Ewe, Hugh
For extra credit, Eeewwwwwww
And for you South Philly people,
You’se….Does YO! count?
It’s so nice to read this and know that someone else has my same method of detecting flags and standards. Good on you for sticking to that.
We are in the minority but I’m proud to be there.
Yeah, men need yet another re-education about what the women’s movement meant to accomplish.
Well said! But damn, does that mean I should stop waiting for my Lloyd Dobler to come along?
Ditto nsiv….Right on!
Oh fishy! This sounds a little Seinfeldian … you really broke up with a smart, dashing entrepreneur because he asked you to bring your A-game? I would imagine it was just an expression — I agree, I can’t see you ever bringing down a fun quotient.
I once dated a guy who was guilty of all of the above — insiduous insults disguised as jokes (check), couldn’t be arsed to make the effort to impress (check), and worst of all, he always insisted that I drove every time we met up coz, again, he was just too lazy. But the worst part was that HE dropped me! That’s what I get for ignoring/lowering my standards out of sheer desperation.
I SO could have used this post back then.
I once dated a guy who said he felt so comfortable with me that it was “like sleeping with his best mate”… I’m sure there was a compliment in there somewhere…….
I was watching a 20-20 or Dateline or Nightline or some other line about a “Real Life Hitch.” It was about this dating doctor of sorts (I think possibly in NYC) who coached men in the ways of dating. One tip he gave was to tease a bit to catch attention, which supposedly worked better than being complimentary.
Maybe you were the recipient of bad Hitch’ing in the city?
Don’t forget ‘yew’. The poor tree is feeling left out…
great piece today heather…love your writing!
Hello there Fish! I’ve been following your blog for months now. It’s a real treat to look forward to after a long day of boring lectures in school. Just want to say ‘Hi’, and that even as a Singaporean, I can so totally see the pitfalls of dating in a crowded modern city!
One question though, can any trendy folks please let me in the know of what an “A-game” is? Please please..
Amen sist’a! At least in the beginning we deserve to be wooed since the farting and the belching is what we are headed for.
Ok are you inside my head? ;o)
You are so good at expressing the thoughts that I have about men. I too sometimes worry that my standards are too high but then I think why would/should I settle for anything less?
Agreed! Men have become so lazy with the whole dating thing. I wish “courting” was still practiced!
Right On!!!!If they want to treat us like “One of the Boys” then I guess they won’t mind if we hang out during their boys night poker games and don’t shave our legs before
!!!
hey fish, can I reserve you for a make-out session on friday night?
Amen!!!
Well it IS Tuesday so I guess it’s PC enough for me to accept an invite for Friday night….Sure!
LOL
Great insite, plus I’m totally thinking I need to give a little more of my A-game to my wife. I’ll do that laundry tonight. Thanks for the reality check, Fish!
*sigh* as usual couldn’t agree with you more. Does he know yet about the science hypothesis reached over malibu and pineapples?
This is great. I am glad someone else feels the same way about how men should treat someone they are dating. So many of them can easily screw things up by just opening their mouths.
Although the text messaging shorthand doesn’t phase me at all, I am totally with you on the guys who want some but don’t want to pay for some.
What is it to take a girl out these days? The last few dates I have been on, I’ve had to basically tell them we were going out. As well as pick the day, time, place and do pretty much everything but pay. Thank goodness for small favors, I guess.
Completely and utterly true. There are ways to woo a girl, and guys should know them!
You’d be surprised how many of them don’t know those three basic rules in their early- to mid-40s (which actually answers the question about why they’re not in relationships, now that I think about it…..)
Hang tough, kid!!
I’ve been reading about an first hand experiencing unacceptable male behavior ever since I moved to NYC. At first, i thought it was something I was doing, but then I came to realize that somewhere down the line something went serioulsy awry in the dating arena. I blamed their mother’s for failing them, their father’s for not being proper role models…and then I stumbled upon the book (I’m going to try doing an HTML link to it that might not work because I suck at any sort of code), What Our Mother’s Didn’t Tell Us by Danielle Crittendon in the women’s studies section. Every women should buy this book. It’s smart and thought provoking and, at least for me, provided another perspective on all the dating stuff I’d been experiencing. Check it out – I think you’ll find it interesting.
Now that I am the mother of a son who will oneday grow up to be “one of the” I am doing everything in my power to make him not like “one of them” He is three and is already holding the door open for ladies and saying excuse me when he burps and my favorite thing yet….he pus down the toilet seat!
How about a guy who seems to be “into” me but uses words like “tits” in regular conversation with me?
Or the guy who asked me out to dinner and then had ME pay for the taxi?
Keep up the great work!
You’ve heard all I have to say about this, so all I need to add is that Cameron Crowe is a hack.
You are SO on the money!!!
Clearly I’m not one for spelling out full words, but I can understand the frustration. And for me, it’s not a matter of “buying vowels”, it’s more a matter of being able to fit all my text into one “page”, there is usually a characture limit (much like leaving a comment, but more limiting).
I hear what you’re saying and agree whole heartedly about the being treated like a girl. I have dated so many guys (they don’t even qualify as “men”) who haven’t the foggiest idea of how to treat girls, much less women. I mean, is it too much to ask to be romanced a little? And usually it’s the smallest of things that send me soaring on Cloud 9. It’s not like it has to be complicated or expensive, just thoughtful.
It just goes to show that either there are not enough mothers out there teaching their sons how to behave properly, or men really do think with their willies! (Notice the lower case W)
I know I already put in my two cents’, but I had change.
The thing is, guys don’t seem to want to admit that their dates are dates. I hate to beat a dead horse, but a lot of guys are still afraid of commitment (part of their fear of growing up), and they’re afraid of failure.
If you’re “just friends” and a girl says no to pizza, it’s no big deal. But if a guy asks a girl on a pizza date and she says no, it’s humiliating. To relieve the pressure, guys don’t call dates dates.
When guys are enjoying a social activity with a girl, they don’t want to admit to themselves that it’s inherently unlike a social activity with a guy friend. They’re afraid to call it what it is: A date. To compensate, they act like jerks, hence your experience.
That would be my “real” guess about what’s going on.
AMEN to that! I have a list of what men should be doing when they start the dance of dating….there are def. times that I wonder why I even bother…
I can’t help but laugh with this post. I have been on the receiving end of those type of statements. Glad I am not the only one who cringes and decides that its a deal breaker.
Here’s to guys putting on the “clean” front. Here’s to guys treating chicas like chicas. Here’s to you, Fish, for making me laugh today. I needed that.
Dare I say *Peace out*?
Ciao…
I second or third the AMEN! Go Fish.
Dear Fish,
Would you date a 55 year old single guy with a great day job that is a multi-instrumentalist in a band on weekend nights?
Sincerely, Ron
Good for you, girl! I think many more girls, as well as guys, need to hear this. I tend to let them get away with things, and it always ends up bad. Sometimes they need us to put our foot down before they learn. Without being bitchy about it, of course.
Nice entry.
your a-game??? Seriously?? What a jerk. He’ll probably still be single at 60 and wondering what’s wrong with all the women. Jeez.
You go, girl!
You girls are too grumpy and negative. Not Fish, she is cool and fun, but some of these commenters … I mean, there are plenty of obnoxious things girls in this town do, too.
What is an a-game?
I hope you told him your A- game was reserved for non school nights!
“A-game” is a sports metaphor. You talk about a team bringing its A-game when they are doing everything right and are really on the ball. It basically means, one’s best effort.
I guess this guy wanted Fish to be willing to stay out longer, but if that was so important to him, he could have asked to “reserve” her on a weekend…
Alright..this is what men need to understand:
Most women get hit on constantly, a lot more than men do obviously. If all the girl wanted was sex, she could get it from MANY sources anytime she wanted.
So obviously, the reason she’s spending the time dating a man is to feel special and be treated like a Queen. Now if she’s not being treated the way she wants, she has no other incentive to stick around because getting sex is no problem for her, it’s a problem for guys because they hardly ever get explicitly hit on.
If some of the boneheads out there understood what actually drives women emotionally, both parties would be getting what they want.
Um, I do see where you’re coming from but…well. Is it really that bad? I’ve learnt that there’s often a bit of give and take needed.
When I met my fiance he had zero self confidence, not in an attention seeking way, but in a self depricating way. Normally a total ‘deal breaker’(it just REALLY irritates me, especially when un-founded, makes me wana throw things (!)) but I stuck with it cause he was cute and astonishingly funny(yes, I know. Superficial would not even cover it) and I realised eventually that there was so much else about him that I liked (and now love.) It was sooo worth ‘lowering my standards’ a little and finding an amazing guy.
There are lots of fantastic men out there, hiding under layers of arogence and the like.
I guess you gotta kiss a whole lot of frogs sometimes.
Then again, if something really bugs you that bad, it might not be worth it. (I tried to get over a guys constant belching. Turns out there was no diamond in that rough.)
I think some of these things are kind of picky unless they are hiding larger issues. The “A Game” thing wasn’t just about his using the expression, but that it seemed like he was making the date contingent upon her behaving to his specifications. That’s a turnoff.
I disagree that “U” or “dude” or whatever are bad in themselves. It all depends on context. If a young man is comfortable enough with me to call me dude, it might be a joke or a good thing. All about the context.
There are some brilliant guys who are just lousy spellers. Then again, Spellcheck does exist. Everyone should try to make their best impression at first – it shows they may be serious about u.
Coolnerd, it’s not that women get hit on all the time, although the part about getting sex whenever they want is true. Here’s where you falter: “So obviously, the reason she’s spending the time dating a man is to feel special and be treated like a Queen.”
Er, that’s not completely correct. Not all of us need to be treated like a “Queen.” Some want to be treated decently, and to have someone to do things for in return. So what’s the reason we’re dating? It might be so that we can meet someone great and end up in a relationship. Having sex with random people is not always safe, even emtionally. Finding someone we LIKE who we can be with is a very good thing.
But if a guy (or a girl, for that matter) makes very little effort in intitial dates, it’s a sign that they don’t care much, meaning we won’t be treated well in the future, and that there might not BE a future.
Guys who do things like ask us how our day was or ask about our interests are the ones who stand out. It’s all about effort.
You are soooooooooo right!!! There just has to be a standard…. Good on you, sister!
Being treated well, being asked how your day was, and someone being there for you..hmm, sounds like royalty treatment to me! After all, just because you’re not being treated badly doesn’t mean you’re being treated well..there’s a difference. Men who do treat a woman like that will be treated like Kings as well..it goes both ways.
There’s nothing wrong with it, society doesn’t question men when they say “A man needs to feel like a man.” But when women voice wanting to be treated well, we’re called “high maintenance.” In this day and age, when chivalry is unofficially dead, for a guy to be romantic, respectful,caring, and considerate is a big deal, it doesn’t happen that often. That’s royalty treatment for today’s standards..like it or not.
And why shouldn’t women be treated like Queens? There are so many women who are working full time and raising kids, whether they are married or single, in my opinion, women in today’s world need to be worshipped. Don’t get me wrong, a good man deserves the same.
A man who asks you to bring your “A-game,” followed by “Peace out,” or is trying to reserve you for a night of making out IS treating you like a girl, a high school girl. This is the problem, SOME men forget that girls grow up into women, who have new goals and desires for their relationships. However, I disagree with asking men to lie about who they are for a few blissful months. If you know that he is messy up front, and that is not something you can deal with, would it not be better to go find a clean man and save yourself the bitching when he lets down his front months later?
Having someone ask how your day is means being treated like a queen? My, them’s some loooow standardss for royalty.
I TOTALLY agree. I was done with a guy after one date when he began an email with: “What up Sweden?”, since I happen to be Swedish. Not cute…
Cool Nerd, I think we’re on the same page if you think that being asked how your day was equates to being treated like a queen. But really, I think it’s common decency. Rare, but decent. If you use terms like ‘Women should be treated like a queen’, then you have guys calling us stuck up. Asking someone how their day went on a date is so freaking EASY that I can’t understand why so few guys do it…well, I guess the ones who do it are in relationships or married.
Making the littlest effort goes a long way. Guys don’t have to buy us fancy meals or tell us we’re beautiful. They can show their appreciation just by acting concerned and displaying basic kindness. Hell, once a guy brought me a paper flower and it was adorable, because it demonstrated effort. Too bad he was an hour late, ha ha, just kidding.
Stop complaining! Men can be thoughtless, but women are far too self conscious nowadays, and treat every little word as something negative or insulting. This is exactly the type of stupid article that influences womens’ decisions. Ha you are quite the picky one. The guys wouldn’t have done that unless you showed signs you were interested in “it”.
o.m.g. seriously. your “a-game”?? i think i’d be killing someone. but no, darlin, not just you, “u” as a word is a definate turn-off for me too. the whole concept just makes me think we’re all 15 and don’t yet know how to carry on a (text) adult conversation. men loose MAJOR points for cul8r. ugh.
Women’s decisions are NOT influenced by articles. We are not going to reject a good guy just because of what we read on a blog. But even being treated like human beings is sometimes too much to ask. If you are interested in someone, show it. Don’t be making her feel bad that she’s not up to the challenge of staying out past midnight. And if you cancel a date because youre too busy, saying later you want a makeout session is NOT COOL.
I once had a guy who would text me like this “Last night was fun!!! Let’s do it again some time soon!!?!?!!”.
Seriously.. first of all, most conversations don’t really require exclamation marks. And if you really must use them then one should suffice.
It’s the SMS equivalent of being slobbered on by the over-excited guy…
For the record, the abbreviation stuff isn’t just guy behavior. I was going to have drinks last year with a girl who used (in email!) phrases like, “Til 2moro” and “does that work 4 u?” And this was a lawyer, no less!
I agree with what CL had to say. And I do think there are plenty of guys who are gentlemen in the city… but probably very few of them want to date women who sit around whining about how bad guys are on blogs! It’s just unappealing. (I’m not talking about Fish, who was describing specific guys and didn’t get into these gross generalizations).
A reservation!? I barely accept call-aheads!
oh my god that is some horrible shit. “Bring your A game” >> what on God’s Brokeback Mountained green earth is that?
You should have responded with a simple “You get an F, biawtch. Word.”
I dunno. Boys are dumb.
m
p.s. I linked to you on (from?) my blog. i hope that’s cool >> think am crushin’ on yer writing.
What is funny is that you think all these moments define a person. OK, if I am generally iritated with a man, almost anything can be a dealbreaker. Otherwise, it seems a bit far-fetched and up-tight to me.
I didn’t read the 70 other comments, so I’m betting everyone said this…. you are NOT being fussy!!! At all.
Fish..
You’re blog is aptly named. You make a few comments and everybody follows you in a school of like-minded nonsense.
Women have done it to themselves. You want to be an equal in the boardroom but when hailing a cab you want preferential treatment…Sorry sister if I’m 1 step ahead of you, I’m riding you’re walking.
No wonder single women think men are jerks. Your attitudes stink.
A.
I totally agree with you. If I was absolutely crazy about either of them, those things wouldn’t have bugged me so much. It just comes down to little things, and if the little things all add up to one big feeling that I’m worth a little exta effort, that’s when it becomes the deal breaker.
I do, in general, think men are pretty great and I have been treated very well by some of the city’s nicest.
Fish, right on. Love visiting your blog and reading your perspective.
Ron, that’s a pretty lame comparison. My guess, Ron, is that you’d rather your female partner act like a lady/girl (whatever) rather than one of your lame frat brothers.
Everyone has their standards. All I’m sayin’…
Ron, I don’t see anyone talking about preferential treatment here.
The other side of the coin is that we girls are ALWAYS willing to do anything for a guy who treats us well. I have so much energy stored for a guy who’s just nice and decent to me and other people. I don’t need to be treated like royalty, but good conversation would be nice.
Men and women may have different needs, but is being treated with consideration so hard? It wasn’t the A-Game and the U that were the problem, it was the utter disregard and disinterest these two guys had. Don’t date someone who doesn’t even like you.
Ron: Sorry she didn’t take you up on your offer to date a man 30 years her senior. Get over yourself.
Heather- Ur posting seems pretty straight forward 2 me. All U want is a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T. -Gregg
yes, Yes, YES.
I put in extra effort when I meet someone I like. I expect that if he likes me, he will do the same. It takes two to get things off the ground.
i guarentee you, if he isn’t 100% wonderful when you’re dating – he won’t be worth his weight when you’re married. see, they fall to at least 50% of their original charm after you say “I Do.” Luckily, my man was at 200% when we met. Don’t compromise, it’s never worth it.
hilarious. i commend you for not falling victim to the “u”…i hate that sh*t
Thanks Heather…Being a newbie to the 21st century world of dating, i.e. email, text messaging, etc, it’s nice to know a few don’ts.
And I hate to burst Natalie’s bubble, but if the guy is 100% wonderful the whole time you’re dating, he’s about 15% full of crap. No one is that awesome all the time. Just my $.02.
I was seeing this guy once who would send me these dirty text messages, but they were all 2 and U and R and finally I was like, dude, if you want to get me hot, quit writing like you’re Prince. We were good from then on out.
Duct tape good? ;P
I agree 100% on the whole U R 2, and my least favorites are “ima” and “gurl.” What is that about? Does it really take too much effort to spell it out or correctly. It’s a total turn-off. Good for you Fish.
I just started reading your blog and I am impressed! I have been seeing (he’s scared to date after his last gf messed him up so badly-yes I know it’s BS) a guy for nearly 5 months and have finally made up my mind to dump this loser for good – what can I say it was a cold lonely winter and I put up with his lack of effort and waste of my time for too long – time to raise my standards back up to where they should have been when I met him!
Wow. Ron sure turned didn’t he? Hee hee, that gave me the biggest chuckle out of all the responses.
Heather- Duct tape? Really? I always keep it handy, but … like … in bed? So how do you … like … use it? -Gregg
Tanya…I didn’t say I was 55, just merely a hypothetical scenario. The CEO of my company is 65 and a fish magnet for femmes of all ages.
The bottom line here is that it pays to be thoughtful, respectful and considerate no matter what your gender or goal is. This type of behavior will get you everywhere.
Women as well as men should realize you can’t have it both ways. That’s why I created thie other boardroom/cab scenario.
BTW I’ve been over myself for years.
Reading this blog confirms my suspicions that women are just as shallow as men but in different ways.
paragraph #1: “When it comes to casual dating, I am pretty low maintenance.”
paragraph #13: “Perhaps Iâm being fussy”
so sorry.
“The bottom line here is that it pays to be thoughtful, respectful and considerate no matter what your gender or goal is. This type of behavior will get you everywhere.”
Well, yes, Ron. That was the point of her post. Nothing shallow about it. We would do the same for men.
I don’t expect to get a cab ahead of a man, and I probably wouldn’t if I tried!
I got a “peace out, homey” once. i swear, it was homey, not honey.
hey Fish — thought I would share part of an email I recently received from a boy.
He must have been sending me smoke signals to compliment whatever the hell he was trying to say in this portion of the email.
“…thnx 4 d postcard
…ur having lots
…want 2 recieve
…ther inn d hospital
…just kiddin!”
There’s nothing like a little illiteracy to get a girl all hot & bothered.
m
you’re not being too fussy. equality for the sexes is a double-edged sword, and now it is indeed becoming the norm for a guy to treat a girl like he would his buddies. i am in complete accordance with your rant; moms need to up the volume on their “this is how you treat a girl” spiel.
Be grateful you learnt the truth on day one. Took my boy 14 months to start farting (and giggling like a 12 year old), and now it’s too late to get out!
Well, Fish, I’ve largely given up on dating because it’s such a nasty minefield of unuttered expectations.
I’m an untidy male, and I fart in bed.
So, lets face it, I’m doomed. But I’d rather not tell lies and pretend to be someone I’m not.
I would never speak to a woman in sports terms, ‘A’ game, or whatever, but maybe that’s partly because I don’t see the point in most sports. Who cares which end of the field the pigskin ball is? Not me.
I can cook, I can clean, though I hate doing it, I can iron, I can wash clothes so they still come out the same colour and size and shape they were meant to be.
And I truly do like girls… some of them anyway, I’m just fed up with the whole dating game.
And the invisible rules. Problem is, there are so many different sets.
So that’s it. I’ll just become a curmudgeonly old man, with nobody to give me a reason to improve.
Very nice blog. Congrats on the bloggie as well.
Never mind all that – I keep meeting guys who brag about how much pot they smoked in college. It’d be ok if they added, “Now I realize it was stupid.” But what’s to make me think they’re still not sitting around smoking pot?
The idea is, when you meet someone, you are supposed to be trying to show her/him the BEST things about you. If you are so uninterested, don’t ask that person out at all.
It isn’t about lying, it’s about making effort to impress. Girls do it. Guys should, too.
Ack!!!! Since I am just now venturing back into the dating world, I hate to think that this is what it has in store for me.
i just wanted to be comment 100. but i love this post because it makes more sense than i am able to put into graceful words.
I met this guy a couple months ago who is 32 & I went out with him twice. He opened doors, had great table manners, hip dresser, funny, smart & very good looking. Well one day I’m at work & I get a text message from him that says…”Slap your ass & pull your hair”. I was like – WHAT!!
First of all that’s not funny & second I hardly knew him enough to have a make out session with him.
Sure he was really good looking, but I was strong & stuck to my standards & my response was no thanks…I’m not interested.
Oh my god, Heather! That’s unbelievable.
Was he tanked? Off his meds? High? He can’t just be socially inept. I mean…a social reject is one thing, but THAT TEXT message takes the cake.
You poor thing.
You should have responded with something horrendous (I’m not judging!) like: “Shove a d!ldo up your @$$ and pull your ear.” What a tool.
maha
Girls/women fart and belch too. Perhaps women are better at hiding it longer, but hey, its a part of being human. You’ve got to be pretty shallow and/or there has to be NOTHING else there if this is a deal breaker for men or women. Seriously, though, some people are just not very bright. That’s a turn off for many people, other people don’t care. Let keen/picky people get together with each other so they can pick at each other
maybe using words like a-game or reserving for a makeout session aren’t great, but that shouldn’t be a reason to stop talking to the guy. Men are human and make mistakes. Maybe the guy was just trying to sound friendly (by reserving he’s acknowledging that she is a busy person, he’s asking her to make space for him). That is very different from farting or leaving the toilet seat up. It could be that the a-game message was intended for a buddy, but he pressed the wrong button on the speed dial. Men would be more aware of these things if women would point out these small things once in a while (I didn’t know that asking a girlfriend how her day went, would be treating her like a queen). Communication is essential, men and women speak different languages. Another point is that many guys have treated girls very well, and then end up being dumped for guys who are complete jerks.
Hey…great blog!!! I’m confused by men in today’s world too. Forgive me, but I’d like to think I’m a pretty good catch..I give a great massage (which I love doing), I’m heaps of fun, alright looking, a good cook and great with kids. I have a great job, high salary, great family and loads of friends. So why is it sooo damn hard to meet someone who’ll do those nice little things when we first meet? You know, flowers, dinner, maybe a massage in return? Women have been spoiling men for years (and before the women’s movement, being supported financially for it in return). Now that we’re on equal footing in the workplace, can’t it be the same in our relationships? Why don’t the guys out there appreciate women who do treat them well, and honour it by giving a little in return? Is it really so hard to figure out?
Guys, if you’re reading this, here are some hints:
1. Take your girl out for dinner occasionally. This means you pick her up, plan where to go, pay for the meal, and dress nice. Make polite, 2-sided
conversation, and don’t get drunk!
2. buy her flowers (or pick ones down the street if you’re skimping it) on special occasions. I know guys who think flowers are a waste of money – trust me, they are not. For a lot of girls out there, flowers are even better than oral sex (excuse the crudeness).
3. Say thankyou when your girl does these things in return for you.
And Fish, good on you for recognising that you’re guy was soo in for just a casual fling, i.e booty call. Hang in there, you will meet someone who’s interested in something more serious.
Think I’ve said my $2.50 worth!
p.s lol will someone get Ron an anti-bitterness pill, please? And how old are you Ron? lol
I absolutely did NOT say “Peace Out.” That expression went out with street corner hi-fives, flat tops, and leather Africa medallions.
And I had NO idea that my small, anticipatory exhortation to come out and play would be taken so incorrectly. What I do think is not represented here (and I’ve not read through all of the comments so I might be wrong) is that what I really wanted was for you to come out and rock out with the homies like one of the boys for that one night…a cuter, sexier, feminine homie of course (and one I enjoyed kissing I might add), but a homie nonetheless that I could bring into my world via multiple entry points; someone who would be as comfortable at an outdoor restaurant as at an OCCASIONAL dive bar on my lap, talking shit with the boys. I am truly sorry that that sentiment was lost in translation. If a real man truly likes a woman, and wants to please that woman some of us donât find it that difficult to make that woman feel like a girl. I just wanted you to meet the crew. 
“is that what I really wanted was for you to come out and rock out with the homies like one of the boys for that one night…”
As a realder, I appreciate the concilatory tone of your post.
But next time make your ‘instructions’ clearer, and maybe spend quality time with her first, not pushing her to stay out late on a weeknight, but telling her you like her. For her. Not just because she is cute or sexy. Girls like to hear that they are attractive, but we want to hear that you like us for ourselves, too, because cute is a dime a dozen.
instead of guys trying to hide their emotions behind ‘a-game’ and ‘dude’ and ‘sweet’, consider that girls want to be talked to. we are insecure sometimes and want to know that you like us. if you treat us like your guy friends who you AREN’T attracted to or interested in, we won’t get too turned on.
if a guy asked if he could “reserve me” … i’d be a tad bit ticked too..
that’s like treating you as if you’re
an object.. that’s a big no no boys..
… the guy i’m currently dating is good
he’s respectful for the most part..
except for this one time we were having
a shower together & he playfully
asked me to “get on my knees” …
needless to say that shower was over
fast
don’t call your girl one of your
“homies”
Why on earth would a grown woman want to be treated like a girl?
Well, now. I think you’ve done a fairly good job of missing the point entirely.
It wasn’t “girl” versus “grown woman,” it was “girl” versus “buddy.”
Funny, I thought that was pretty freakin’ obvious.
I read the blog, and I totally agree. Women should be treated with dignity and respect all the time by all- as they are all brilliant and smart in thier own ways. I do my best to treat woman with this standard, and everyday improve that standard, because although sometimes i meet a girl who doesn’t respect me- eventually i meet someone who returns the favor, and that is always worth the wait, and for sure, that gives the best satisfaction.
I do stress, that sometimes guys don’t really know what is expected of them, yet once you talk to them about what you want, most of them catch it and learn right away.
I agree with what you said, but did you have to use the “f” word. I am a mother trying to teach a former truck-driving daughter that it really doesn’t sound good coming out of her mouth as my mother taught me. Have things really changed that much? I would hope not. Otherwise, I agree completely.
everyone makes mistakes
about leaving the toilet seat up…
we need it up to pee,
we have to put it up to pee cause you leave it down,
we dont complain,
so neither should any of you!
I TOTALLY agree. I was done with a guy after one date when he began an email with: “What up Sweden?”, since I happen to be Swedish. Not cute…
Posted by Sweden on March 21 at 09:03pm
I had to laugh that you were upset about being called Sweden,when you use that as your username.The guy writes What up Sweden? and you Tee off on him.Change your username then.
I think that every girl should have her standards, it is important to find someone that makes you happy… that being said, I think the fact that he wanted to invite you out with his friends was sweet – I always thought when a guy introduced you to the boys it was a compliment!- but the wording DID leave a bit to be desired. =) good luck out there ladies!
us (men) will never know what women want!
WOmen want guys to check out the litle pink book of edicate, memorise it, and fallow it like it was thier bible, then forget half of it so you wont upshow them and think they are rude. lol
Ah yes, I went on one date with a guy, lovely long walk on the beach, talked for a long time, seemed to be going well. Then after specifically telling him I don’t do text messages they start to come in… all after midnight. “RU OUT 2NITE?” “WHATCHU UP 2?” “WHERE U AT” I tell ya I was SOOO flattered I wanted to call his punk… up and let him know that if he can’t be bothered to call me PRIOR to going out and planning on meeting me somewhere he can certainly NOT plan on ever seeing me at 1am when he hasn’t managed to find anyone at the bar. Seriously!! When did this become OK behavior? And are there really girls out there that respond to this sort of thing? I guess I should be glad that I have enough self respect to recognize what a jerk he is but really… Men are just ridiculous!
I think we dated the same guy! or worse there are other men out there that want your A Game at all times and end their conversations with Pease Out.
You’ve got to have them standards and let them so called gentlemen know what it is that a woman wants.
peace out girl
This is my first time on this blog and I feel like I’ve found sisters. Fish is awesome, witty and has a great attitude even when she’s down. I LOVE that. This entry caught my eye because of recent happenings with my BF. He invited me somewhere along with a few mutual friends. I emphatically squealed like five times (yes) that I wanted to go. When speaking to a mutual FF friend, he said he had no idea what my plans were. This stung and shocked moi, so when I asked what I was to him, after over a year of dating, he claimed it was too late to have this “conversation”. Two words would have made me feel so much better, but apparently “I’m sorry” and a request to talk later did not occur to him. Is this expecting royal treatment? I think not. Is looking for some sign that he cared/was sorry to hurt me over the top? After a week: nothing. He answered my question without having to miss any beauty sleep or utter a single word.
Get out of my head!
Actually,don’t.
Good to see my thoughts put in words and so well at that.
Thank you!
I thought I was being unreal with my expectations.
Glad I’ve stuck to them now.
Not that I didn;’t falter.
Having been the butt of rude jokes,unpunctuality,twelve-hour-late-responses to calls/messages,can-I-reserve-you-messages,criticism,talking down….(rant over..almost)
from ONE guy after a handful of dates,
Patience/tolerance runneth slim.
Oh the clincher?
Being asked and expected(!) to drive over and wait for coffee till busybee finishes getting a haircut.
Bah.
Jeez…you guys are a bit harsh aren’t you? While I can’t stand all of the text shorthand, I don’t presume to “know” the author as a person, lover, friend, or make any assumptions about their intellect based on a few characters in a message.
Franky, Fish..I don’t think this asshole even has an “A-game”…whatever that is…
I agree with wanting to be treated like a girl. I was watching a movie with a guy I just met, I had not even kissed him yet and he reached over to grab my breast. When I pushed his hand away he asked me what my problem was.Needless to say I have not seen him again.
whine whine whine! give a break. if these picky little things are what break the deal for you with men, become a lesbian… but wait, you girls have just as many faults so i guess you’ll die old and lonely. so what, i guy may not say the right things some time or he may not treat you like a princess 100% of the time but that doesn’t mean that he’s a bad guy. people have bad days, both guys and girls, people aren’t always really nice, this is the REAL world. get over it
I’d rather just wank off & get back to my own A-game baby !! Life is alot simpler that way.
How about this one? At the end of my second date with a guy I met online, he demanded a blow job. Yes, I said DEMANDED. At first I thought he was kidding, but he wasn’t…My reaction after I realized that fact was, of course a bit TAWANDA-ish, and included some “fightin words”! He told me that I was going to have to “get over this whole blow job thing”. WTF?!? At that point, my “A game” became a little less “A”, and punctuated with a few “F Yous”. Needless to say, never saw that chauvenistic pig again. Ain’t single life great? LOL..ah well, at least it gives us something to talk about over margaritas with the girlz! Cheers!
you are soooo correct!!! men out there should read your post =)
I appreciate your thoughts and situations. A little book on you and what works for you from the gitgo would be helpful. We guys are either walking through minefields or on eggshells. Give us a map!!
The irony is that you would like to be treated like a lady and it sounds like you deserve this. Having accepted this, your main issue is that you are not being treated with respect and this, by the way, is the reason why this planet is in a great state of turmoil. You’ll never know me and I’ll never know you, but I wish you a long and happy life. …x
I absolutely LOVE this blog! I am with you on the “having standards” thing – I went against my standards one time with a guy I met online… I DETEST misspellings, and he had MULTIPLE ones in his dating profile… but because he was so persistent, I went out with him… after 3 weeks, he busted out the L word (love – not “lesbian”)… I felt SOMETHING for him, but not love, so I didn’t say it back…. but that made it really awkward after that……
Dating scene in America sucks big time Women have an illusion of how men should be, please………….. you need to travel around(outside America, to Europe, Africa, Asia) and learn a thing or two, or else you will be 70, unhappy and no one to visit at Nursing home !!!
Though some men dont think before they act, it’s not all there fault. To all you women out there, men dont try to make you mad or feel bad, we do our best to please you. Some men think that women like the guy who watches the game on sundays and can bench 500 pounds. Some men think that women like the sensitive men who constantly write poems for you send you flowers and cry with you. See it’s not our fault we act hard headed because we are trying our best to be what -you- want. By the way im 14
For all my life I have been the nice guy, the gentleman, Until recently I used to bring flowers or candy to the first date, or a greeting card with a thoughtful poem, I finally learned my lesson when after a month of dating someone I was convinced to buy nonrefunable round trip tickets to a tropical island, a week later she sleeps with my best friend. I hate being cautious and “jaded” but that is the lesson to be learned. Girls dont like Nice Guys.
get a grip woman… you sound like the girl that every man wants to run away from. lighten up, have some fun and quit trying to write the owners manual to dating. if its that much work to have some fun or to not offend you its not worth it… You should start dating women.
Better off buying a cat like all the other lonely, “Sex In The City” watching women with unrealistic expectations.
Hello Heather, I dont know if you listened to the whole song….(Aimee Mann “It’s not going to stop” but in the end she says = “So just…give up”
This Fish may not be looking in the right pool, or bowl. How about going to a volunteer event? Or maybe even a religious service?
Part of the problem is a collective shift from absolutism to relativism, from joint-families to rugged individualism. How about “pot-luck dinner at my place.. rolls with real butter?” because those guys yóu’re meeting sound messed up and you need some accountability. Having standards is great, but can you enforce them by yourself? Try the buddy-system it works for swimming.
Do the folks have an effective network? Call them and ask and perhaps take dates only by recommendation. Best regards – Ezra E.
P.S.Cute profile pic =).
As a guy reading this, all I can say is that this is very discouraging in terms of dating. I can understand some of the gripes. Asking to be reserved for a “make-out” session is downright stupid and making references to an “A-game” may not be the best way to woo a woman… but to make automatic snap-judgements based on short-handing their text messages or misusing sports terms is pretty shallow.
That said, communications is key. Listening is vital. Talking to a woman about her day and trying to do little things to please her are all within the realms of reason.
…but reading some of the conclusions being reached by some easily-corrected actions (with just a little communication) sounds a little ludicrous.
How about you stop asking to be treated like a girl and demand to be treated like a woman.
I’m two SmRt fur this kind of ridiqule! Shaking Head? Hey look I can spell benevolentness. Try being YOURSELF for once and see what you attract? It will be dust if you don’t change.
I have been in a wonderful annoying, rocky, blissful, replaceable, earth moving, lackluster, and fulfilling, relationship for the past 7 years. at times he thinks he’s being cute, or funny and really he’s being STUPID. But he tries and he learns me on anew level every day.If after our first date he decided never to call me again because my ex was on a date at the same movie (with the woman he’d gotten pregnant while we were engaged mind you) and i couldn’t keep it together enough to watch the flick he never would have found who he believes to be the love of his life(me yea). if i had grimaced at the idea of his bringing a Chris Rock movie to my house and an offer to cook me dinner instead of taking me out on the town. I never would have realized that he was listening when i told him that Chris Rocks “bring the pain” is what got me through my first real(and not last)heart break.i would have shyed away from his corny pick up line, and missed out on one of the best men i’ve ever known
its all about seeing whats real
I think that what you women are suffering from is called selfishness and close-mindedness. If you took your head out of your romance novel for a few minutes you would not chase away all of the good, well educated, sensitive, and caring men. The reason you women who reply to things like this column cannot get a good man is because the men you attract are either just trying to use you or are really good guys that are not good in social situations involving women. I say that I just feel sorry for the guys that try to date you. I used to date girls like you because I think in some twisted way I liked being unhappy. Even when they said they loved me thier demands sounded like they wanted an unrealistic relationship. You have to meet someone half way in any relationship business or personal. If the guy looks good and takes care of himself, is well educated, and is a successful professional then you should be willing to meet him half way or he will look somewhere else. Be with women if you don’t like men.
Hello, this is an interesting blend of opinions on this blog. Sounds like the melting pot of dating experiences. Boy, it sure can be complicated…everyone being so unique as far as their backgrounds, experience, what they think is acceptable, how conscious they are of others’ feelings….. anyway, that’s not why I’m posting. In fact, I never post on blogs so this is sort of new for me. I’m just looking for a small bit of advice, I guess.
I don’t ever go on dates even though I would like to. I just don’t get out to meet guys all that often. So recently one guy that I was in contact with online (we’ve never met in real life) had mentioned to me that he was going to this dance studio in town to take Salsa lessons and basically said, “here’s the calendar of events if you’d like to go.” So I said sure, I’d go on the night he’d mentioned that he was going, and asked which class he was attending, the 7:00 or 8:00. He said he wasn’t sure and to make a long story short, we never went because he never got back to me…
…(cont. from last post)
So he called and said he was sorry things didn’t work out and I was OK with that, no big deal. I indicated that maybe we could go another time (the dance studio wasn’t going anywhere). So a week went by, then almost another week, and then I e-mailed him asking about something he did at a shelter and in that reply, he mentioned that he was going to the dance studio that week, then mentioned he was going to see a Cuban band in Toronto that weekend, as well. But he did not mention anything about including me so I did not want to pipe up and say, “Oh, that sounds like fun, I’ll join you” or something like that. So I responded after that weekend had passed and asked how it went. I haven’t gotten a reply.
I guess my question is how to read that kind of “behavior,” for lack of a better word. I just assume that if a guy wants me to join him somewhere, he will indicate it and I will not have to guess. I don’t want to chase him if he’s not interested. Thx for any advice you may have. =)
any good men left? I know there are.
I must get out there!
what about the guy that sent me a text message at midnight on Valentine’s Day asking me out for dinner…hmm. could’ve asked a little sooner…and NOT via cell-phone buttons.
I wish we had the guys’ points of view so we can decide on our own what the reality of the situations were with unbiased objectiveness. btw, I have a masters in engineering & am in med school, I se abbrevations for text/Im all the time, its not to save money, its much faster, and if the other person truely cares about you, I would hope woudl at least try to find out why certain things are done instead of assumign they are know-it-alls. I’m not perfect, & I hope certain girls/ladies need to realize they too have faults, & not everythign they do is the “right” way to do things! thanks.. my 2 cents.
Thanks Unoweit!!!!
I met this incredibly well mannered man….well, I guess in conversation wise, he’s not really on my level but the one thing I love about him is that he is so refined…..he can really talk up a girl. He’s good looking, looks after himself, a professional, sweet and asks to call me…..leaning towards me and touching me on my hand….I didnt give him the OK, whats wrong with me??? I think I was not really interested in a relationship, just some harmless flirting. If its the real deal, I would be gone like flash…yea pathetic. Still a lot to learn in this world….just chill a bit. Not all relationships will be perfect like those in romance novels….
Yeah, guys are human beings as well….just dont let a few immature ones spoil your mood. If something dont click, move on or learn sthg from it….maybe he’ll change or you’ll change and these things wont bother you so much any more
this blog has the best name in all blogosphere. to be funny is the perfect riposte to joyless feminism.
girl is right. dates are wrong. she wins in a landslide.
girl is also right about receiving letters. wondeful things. which require a little thought, and a little effort, to send. all spells “i care” to other person.
Women aren’t always right, you know men have a guidebook on dating women as well!
The whole farting thing. Yeah, I know it’s part of human nature and we all do it, regardless of how well we hide the fact. However, it does not take that much wind to say, “Excuse me,” following the flatulence (and mean it). You can even say “pardon me” if it’s a matter of you not feeling you should appologize for expelling gas. And, as a part of nature, it is not something that needs to be laughed at after the fact as if your bowels just made the best joke ever. Relieve the pressure, excuse yourself for the brief inconvienience it might cause your neighbors, and move on, without the giggling.
i cant believe it!i used it to go for another girl and it turns out, i loved the first one better but she hates me. love hurts. sigh
What a pretty girl and such an interesting writer. Y’all come visit and I’ll entertain you Georgia Redneck style. You won’t want to go home.
it takes to long to spell out anything…. I am ancient and I do it..
PsyD
Quoting what “Drew” said: “what I really wanted was for you to come out and rock out with the homies like one of the boys for that one night…”
For one, why not just say “Would you mind hanging out with my crew & I tonight?” – Simple & more decent than “bring your A-game..” BLAH. Don’t try to sound cool and use sports terms on a girl you’re dating since some jargons you use might and will sound rude so be careful.
I was in the same boat for years on end. I dated a guy for close to 3 years who also used the words A-game & thought “reserving me” was clever. None the less, the relationship ended – his choice. I never thought I was good enough for him but about a year after he and & split I met this wonderful guy in one of the most riduculous places – Walmart parking lot. We “talked” or as some would say “courted” for about 6 months before I would even consider dating him. He was the sweetest guy. He left roses in my car for no particular occasion, sweet notes throughout my bedroom, and he always made sure that he asked how my day was. After a year and a half of dating I married they guy that I met in Walmart parking lot and I am so thankful that I met ONE of the FEW guys in the world that actually do care about women. Do not lower your standards…your white horse will come around. In the mean time, go out with selfish, retarded guys. It will really make you appreciate the one you eventually marry.
Oh man, I’m so glad I’m not the only one who gets the “you CAN’T be that far along, you’re hardly showing!”